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1. I think Bishop Trautman vastly underestimates both the intelligence and language abilities of what he calls "the average Catholic." Why does he insist that the liturgy be dumbed down as if we all read and spoke at third grade level! I feel insulted by his point of view. And others should as well. What is his agenda underneath all this? Also, syntax is always a difficulty when reading St. Paul, no matter what the translation is! Some ideas cannot be expressed in a primary reader style. Think of what is lost if nuances and subtleties are foregone in the interest of grade school clarity! Trust us--we'll rise to the occasion. Maybe people will even talk about words that are difficult and thereby have a conversation about what they've heard in church instead of just ignoring it because it is so banal to them.

   Posted By: Susan Varenne

2. This new translation will be another disaster. It makes so much more sense to say, "and all so with you" rather than "and with your spirit?" Give me a break when do we talk about "a spirit" except maybe at halloween.

   Posted By: Tony

3. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches us that the formation of moral concience is a life long task.
   That also means that the Catholic faithful must never quit learning about our faith.
   For those who are truly Catholic faithful will attend faith formation classes, research the troubling areas themselves or ask someone who should know.
   It is my belief that as faithful Catholics we should change culture, not let culture change the Catholic Church, Christ's Church.
   In this microwave culture, most people want everything fast and easy, perhaps it is time to slow down and truly learn our Catholic faith.

   Posted By: Neal Williams

4. There is a simple solution if the Bishop is concerned, something that hasn't had much attention for decades: catechesis. Replying "And with your spirit" is an ancient form used both in the East and West and refers to the gifts of the Holy Spirit which the priest received at ordination. It is a sign of respect and encouragement for the priest. It reminds us and him that he is infused with the power of the Holy Spirit and standing in the place of Jesus as he celebrates Mass. I think we should be lifting ourselves up to the beauty of the Liturgy, not trying to boil it down to a lowest common denominator.

   Posted By: Patrick

5. Kudos to Bishop Trautman for trying to preserve the English liturgy from ecclesial boilerplate.

   Posted By: Rev. Isaac McDaniel

6. Having studied for priesthood, I can tell you that the least catechised and least inclined to be catechised are wearing collars. As I told one conference in Chicago some years ago, the primary barrier to effective promotion of the Liturgy, and formation in the Liturgy, are the priests (and more than a few bishops). Those gathered, about half of which were clergy, applauded those remarks vigorously.
   
   Trautman, however, is right. Several of the translations are so difficult and incomprehensible that they are actually more clear in Latin. Its not a matter of 'rising to the occasion' on the part of the congregation - 90% of the clergy isn't going to be able to pronounce some of these words, much less make the run-on sentences sound coherent. After all, how many priests do you know who actually READ the prayers before they stumble through them?
   
   Fortunately, thanks to Benedict XVI, there is an alternative: Anglican use. The Anglo-Catholics have been using English liturgy for almost 400 years and it is both eloquent and reasonably understandable (when it isn't rigorous King James English). Many pluses there. Myself, if I can find an Anglican use parish, that's where I'd be going. The liturgy is better, the music is better, the use of art and architecture is better, and the Anglican priests I know? They actually care about the Liturgy instead of sitting around watching Idol and updating their Facebook page.
   
   Kudos to Trautman, Kudos to Benedict XVI, kudos to those willing to learn. But also "those who are strong must be patient with the qualms of those who are weak."
   
   Pax

   Posted By: Waldhof

7. The bishop asks, "Did Jesus ever speak to the people of his day in words beyond their comprehension? Did Jesus ever use terms or expressions beyond his hearer's understanding?" The answer to that question would be a resounding yes according to the parables in the Gospel of Mark.

   Posted By: Ronald

8. Thank you, Bishop Trautman!

   Posted By: Tom B

9. @Tony, is it 'and also with you' or 'and all so with you'? I really never looked. Maybe it would be good to have a fresh start so a new generation is all on the same page.

   Posted By: Peter

10. Really people, it's called a dictionary. In it you can find both meanings AND pronunciations. Sometimes complex ideas are best expressed in complex terms. Oversimplification of terms can lead to an oversimplification of ideas and understanding. It’s time for bishops and priests to be the teachers and leaders they are called to be. It’s time for the laity to put forth a little effort.

    Posted By: Viva

11. Bishop Trautman states "The vast majority of God's people in the assembly are not familiar with words of the new missal like 'ineffable,' 'consubstantial,' 'incarnate,' 'inviolate,'
    'oblation,' 'ignominy,' 'precursor,' 'suffused' and 'unvanquished.' This presents a wonderful opportunity to teach the lost meaning of these rich and wonderful words to those unfamiliar with them. They are certainly a definite improvement over what we have now.
    
    “Ineffable” is one of the most beautiful words I know and I use it often because it expresses so eloquently the many mysteries of our Faith that cannot be adequately put into words because they represent realities infinitely beyond our abilities to articulate or comprehend. We just accept their inexpressible and inexhaustible wonder.
    
    Examples are the Trinity, the Eucharist, God and his mercy, Heaven, eternity, the sacraments, and on and on. These are all ineffable mysteries. I am delighted that this word, fitting in so many ways, will be in the new missal.
    

    Posted By: Jim Connolly

12. I can only think of one word to describe this new translation: fruity.

    Posted By: Jay

13. My father is an average Catholic, an ordinary man, a fisherman who is not the least concerned about nuances & subtleties & microwave culture. He also doesn't own a dictionary in which to look up the meanings of inviolate, ignominy, percursor & ineffable. When he goes to church, he only wants to experience the presence of God and understand what he's praying in ordinary, simple language. The current leadership of the Church, both in Rome and in the U.S., is comprised of elitist, effeminate snobs who are totally out of touch with ordinary, everyday Catholics.

    Posted By: Jay

14. The people to whom Jesus spoke in parables had precise understanding of what he was teaching. That is why they walked away a lot of the time. Jesus sought to deepen the faith of the people he loved so dearly. We have so much to learn of the attitudes and customs of Judaism of two thousand years ago. Once we do we, too will be challenged by Jesus parables and begin to grow in faith.
    Reading, discussing, studying and using a vocabulary one does not encounter in usual daily life are fine. However, the liturgy is the place in which the simplest of words leads us to an experience of the " Ineffable "at which point we no longer need words of any human sort .
    Something has gone terribly wrong if you need a dictionary to participate in Divine Worship.
    Thank you, Bishop Trautman for your honesty and bravery and for being a real teacher.
    

    Posted By: Aloysia

15. I think it's unkind and unfair to categorize plain speech as 'dumbing down'; it demeans people. Someone who sees the effort to use more common language as an attempt to dumb down content is elitist in this criticism, in my view. There are many people who may not have a vocabulary rich with poly-syllabic words, and I propose that those who do possess such communication skills start simply, patiently, with an eye to so enrich their fellow persons and elevate understanding for all involved. Taking the position that such an effort is to dumb down makes me sad, and abandons not only hope but basic human compassion for one another. I think the Bishop is noble in his undertaking such a cause.
    Our culture is possessed of a certain glitz and glamour, and an ordinary person is up against tremendous odds not to be taken in by other people who make it their living to shame, guilt, cajole, wheedle, inveigle bamboozle, trick or entice them to part with their money, their homes, their cars, their family and their friends all in the name of commerce. The goal is to promote fast and easy with so much verbal legerdemain through linguistic acrobatics that it looks like what it really isn't - fast or easy. Some plain speech might be welcome, no? Someone talking to us in unveiled tongue, in recognizable and easy to understand phrasing, so that trust may be established, and faith may grow. To complicate religious ritual is to engage and immerse yourself in the culture. To untangle articles of faith in elegant yet easily understood passages is counter-cultural in the extreme.
    Catechesis is only as good as the texts on which it is based - which the church rigorously asserts in easily discernible instructions. If you are going to obfuscate principles, tenets, rules and regulations in run-on sentences and perpetual paragraphs, you're not teaching anyone anything - you're boring all but those working on their doctoral thesis. 'Catechesis' itself is not an easy word to spell! I remember the words, 'religious education' from my younger days - oh well.
    Switching to something like the Anglican usage is running away from a responsibility , I think; it is a charming if not valid suggestion, but it has its problems in only adding to the confusion. If someone isn't getting catholicism, but really wants to get catholicism, then throwing another faith at them is sort of invalidating their efforts, and that can lead to all sorts of problems.
    Jesus spoke the parables clearly and concisely to His listeners - it was the meaning of the parables that were metaphoric, allegories and anecdotal. In the end, His words came to, "Unless you become as little children". Simplicity - "say yes when you mean yes..."
    You can NEVER oversimplify something too much - all things must begin somewhere. It is a fallacy and the hubris of Man that we think you can't teach a pig to whistle - until someone does it. The purpose of any dictionary is to render a definition that is as precise as possible without being convoluted. 'Raise your game' is business babble.
    The lecturn, the pulpit or the sanctuary make for poor language labs. How much spreading of the gospels will be done if the spreaders have to stop to teach the, 'lost meaning of these rich and wonderful words' - ? It's a sermon, not an English class.
    Enough.
    The church is losing people, and saying they are 'displaced persons' ain't gonna cut it no mo.
    
    
    
    
    

    Posted By: Evagrius

16. Great thanks to Bishop Trautman and kudos to Evagrius. This deadly pastdating of the Roman Missal [versus updating] reflects how dead the American bishops are. They allowed this monstrosity to happen by passively sitting by. Is that leadership? Wouldn't it be exciting if a committee of pastoral theologians, liturgists, and reps from the "People of God" had been asked to update the Roman Missal to contemporary language, theology, and culture--including the unapologetic use of inclusive language. Is there any love, joy, peace, hope--gifts of the Spirit in Galatians--coming out of the announcement of this walk backwards. In discernment language, this effort is "death-dealing" versus "life-giving." When is the last time anything exciting came from the American Bishops? Has there been any efforts to speak to the real, aka incarnational, spiritual and pastoral needs of our people. There are a few good bishops here but they are being smoothered by the negativity and death rattles of the bishops as a whole. RIP.

    Posted By: Michael Ignatius

17. Bravo, Bishop Trautman!!!!

    Posted By: Kathryn Mihelick

18. Excellent critique of new translation @ http://josephsoleary.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/11/oddities-of-the-new-translations-of-the-missal.html
    
    It is truly absysmal. But, it isn't so much about "big" words as it is about using those words inappropriately.
    I am getting wind of a secret other translation locked in a Vatican vault that is supposed to be superior to the current but without the stumbling illiteracy of the new.

    Posted By: Elizabeth Bennett

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