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Many American Catholics at odds with Vatican on homosexuality

 

SDT-2013-06-LGBT-6-13(Pew Research) Four-in-ten Catholics say there is “a lot” of conflict between their personal religious beliefs and homosexuality.

Pope Francis caused a bit of a stir recently when he reportedly made a reference to a “gay lobby” that exists inside the Vatican during a private meeting with the leaders of a Latin American religious group. Coverage of the comment in the press and in social media underscored the sensitivities that persist among Catholics on issues related to homosexuality.

While the Catholic Church officially maintains that homosexual relations are sinful, many Catholics in the U.S. have a more accepting view. A recent survey by the Pew Research Center found that more than seven-in-ten U.S. Catholics (71%) say homosexuality should be accepted by society. Just a third (33%) say they believe homosexual behavior is a sin, down from nearly half who said this in 2003. However, fully half (54%) of American Catholics say there is at least some conflict between their personal religious beliefs and homosexuality, with 42% saying there is “a lot” of conflict.

The conflict over religion and homosexuality spills over into the views of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender population toward the Catholic Church. A recent Pew Research survey of the LGBT community found that nearly eight-in-ten LGBT adults (79%) perceive the Catholic Church as unfriendly toward them, 16% say it is neutral and just 4% say it is friendly.

Among LGBT Catholics in particular, two-thirds (66%) say the church is unfriendly toward them, while 26% say it is neutral and just 6% see it as friendly. LGBT Protestants and those who are religiously unaffiliated are more negative in their perceptions of the Catholic Church, with 74% of the Protestants and 84% of the unaffiliated saying the Catholic Church is unfriendly toward them.

SOURCE

Pew Research

 
 
 
 

138 Comments

  1. […] are the only Christian denomination with a majority supporting same-sex marriage in Virginia. A PEW poll found that 71 percent of Catholics in the US believe homosexuality should be accepted by society. All 6 […]

  2. Jeannemarie says:

    All this crazy talk about who is true to Catholic doctrine! Our doctrine has nothing to do with civil law. Basically, what the 2 Court decisions can be boiled down to First Amendment, freedom of (and from) religion. They separate Christian morality from the secular scene–exactly how do the civil marriages of gay people hurt “traditional” marriage? Time to separate “matrimony” from “marriage!”

    • TobiasRaphael1 says:

      Jeannemarie,
      You are ignorant of where the basis of Law comes from.
      It is from Old and New Testament morality and Natural law which is given by God.
      gay marriage hurts children. It is already perverting our children in the public schools by teaching them that this behavior is ok. It is putting them in a position to accept evil behavior as being ok by peer pressure through the curriculum that the gays are pushing into the public schools.
      People like you are helping them by your ignorance of the facts and therefore wrongly sympathizing with their side.
      Therefore, doing evil to(scandalizing) these children.

  3. liddy says:

    Romans 1 is a written admonition to not engage in gay behavior which would save homosexuals’ lives. Males getting HIV/aids, Hepitatis A, B, C, bowel disease, fistulas, STD’s, and dysregulation of the immune system, and for women bladder cancer, gilliam-barr syndrone, and many other illnesses. This lifestyle is no utopia as protrayed by the media. Reality check is knowing we were created with the equipment for procreation.
    Jesus came that they might have life and have it to the full in Him AND his Word.

    • Ann (WOC) says:

      @ Liddy: Humans are not defined as animals created with equipment for procreation; our purpose is to love one another. We are not slaves to biological reproduction; the sexual laws of the OT applied to a tribal society that required multiple wives and many children if it was to survive. Nowhere in the NT does Jesus give rules for sexual behavior; he condemns men putting away their wives in divorce, but that does not preclude equitable separation. Please stop with the proclamations concerning our slavery to biology. Christianity, not the law of nature (which is bloody in tooth and claw), is our guide. “Equipment for procreation” does not do justice to the image of God in which all were created; women and men are not procreating animals!

      • TobiasRaphael1 says:

        Ann, you embrace excess emotion and repel rational arguments in your replies.
        Why is this?
        Also, your ignorance of scripture is apparent in your statements. You either forgot a lot or you haven’t read them.
        Also, Jesus established a Church to teach in His name, of which Holy Scripture is part of the teaching that Jesus gave it… not all. His Church clearly teaches willful sodomy is a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.
        You’re either with God or against Him.

      • Tony says:

        Thank you anne for your excellent comment.

  4. Elizabeth says:

    I do not support same-sex marriage and unions, if the church begins to support this behavior, as a cradle catholic I am GONE.

    • Philomena says:

      Good. Go then.

      Just three more hypocrites of the four, who’d sooner demonize other homo/human beings than listen to Christ left.

      Don’t forget that dust on your feet when you leave. Take it with you and wear with sackcloth for a while.

      And we’ll gladly take you back when you’ve learned what it’s like being marginalized and have developed some real and truly Catholic humility.

      Shame on you.

      • Cecilia says:

        Look, many men and women of every sexual persuasion would rather have sex like animals, but God gave us a soul, commandments and a reason to obey His commandments – namely a trip to HELL if we don’t. I’m not sacrificing my salvation to affirm your romp in the hay. I don’t care what the Supreme Court rules; I don’t care what 4 out of 10 Catholics believe and I particularly don’t care what names you call me. I want to go to Heaven; I’m not interested in your approval. Unless Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Spirit comes back to earth and tells me that those 5 judges on the Supreme Court has the ruling right and every person and nation in the past 2 thousand years had it wrong will I change my opinion. You don’t need my approval anyway, you need God’s.

      • Ann (WOC) says:

        Agree Philomena. Great comment.

  5. Anderson Thomas says:

    folks everybody needs to know that these so called polls that claim huge numbers of Americans or Sub groups kike Catholics are for Liberal manure are in fact genned up propaganda. The facts are just the opposite. Satan has taken over the means of social communication, And he was a liar and murder from the very beginning.

  6. jmstalk says:

    It amazes me how many Catholics are willing to challenge the teaching authority of the Church to defend secular principles which have no basis of authority other than the opinions of the people. I would never place human opinions over Church teaching. Jesus Christ instituted a Church and gave it teaching authority over His flock. He promised the power of the Holy Spirit would steer it in truth until the last day, where even the gates of hell would not prevail against it. What part of this don’t you apostate Catholics understand?
    Catholic teaching is God’s opinion expressed through HIS Church, and you reject it at the peril of your soul.

    Today I think many Catholics have subordinated their Church to the whims of the Democratic party, which they hold up like an idol they adore. Because they have chosen to worship this beast, God has given them over to the lie. The Democratic party has become the human expression of the satanic mind: that of destroying all that is good and pure in God’s creation, beginning with the incubator for the next generation: the marital bond. I say to my fallen Catholics, come back to the truth; come out of Sodom and Gomorra; abandon your idols before it is too late for you. In your pride, thinking you can elevate your opinion over the express will of God through his Church, you have placed yourselves on the precipice of hell.

  7. John Germain says:

    Why is the church always accused of being “unfriendly” Are not the protesters the “unfriendly” ones. Why not just leave the church if they don’t want to believe what she teaches? There are many Protestant churches that will accept their acts of sodomy as being OK, and where they will be happy. Many Catholics want to keep the faith true and don’t want to be “forced” into accepting sin as normal activity. So leave us alone and go elsewhere, we have a right to our beliefs just as they do. Just go where you fit in.

  8. Tom says:

    Most Christians, including Catholic Christians, are really just living Pagan lives…they do not follow Christ in any meangful way. They fornicate, and divorce, and contracepts, and abort their babies, and live together, etc., at the same rates as the general population. We have witnessed a massive pulling away from the faith (apostasy), though most people are in denial of that clear fact.

  9. florin says:

    June 29th: This is absolutely not true. I belong to organizations secular and religious and there are few, very, very few who support gay marriage…I don’t know what questions were asked but this statement is an out and out lie…put out there to discourage those who believe in traditional marriage. To say many support gay marriage is to say many support mutual masturbation because that’s all men having sex with men and women with women is. Our bodies were formed male and female to ‘fit’ – just as a key was formed to fit into a lock…manipulate all you want but to use our bodies in any other way is simply not natural.

  10. John says:

    Pride is the deadliest of the seven deadly sins. Anyone else find it ironic that gay activists continue to call their gatherings “pride parades?”

  11. Vickie says:

    The “B” part of the gay lobby should be the tip off. Jesus said either marriage for life two one person or celibacy.

    The “B” suggest a subset who want two people. And it also implies that they could choose to abide by Christ’s teaching but they want an exception.

  12. truth says:

    The Church is a Theocracy and Not a Democracy.

    • Catholic Lady says:

      truth – you are correct the Church is not a democracy – However last time I looked the United States of America was claiming to be just that a Democracy!

      • jmstalk says:

        America is a Republic not a Democracy. Also, DOMA and Prop. 8 were both democratically voted on and yet this ‘voice of the people’ was ignored by 5 men on a court which has overstepped its bounds.

        • True about being a Republic not a Democracy. I read in a book, “They fired the first shot”, that America’s founders were did not want a democracy but a republic for the very reason of what happened in California with Prop 8. We are in for trouble.

      • Ann (WOC) says:

        Thanks CL. As a Canadian you know more about the US than some US citizens do. I would also characterize your knowledge of Catholic/Christianity the same way.

  13. Christine says:

    It’s a good thing that the Church is a democracy. I say we all take a vote to have the pope wear chartreuse instead of white!

  14. John says:

    What benefit is there to society by promoting sodomy?

  15. DF Totty says:

    To be Catholic is just that! There are no allowances for alot of customized value sets
    so as not to hurt anybody’s feelings. The way is what it is, and the only choice is to walk it or not. But, you can’t be in it if you refuse to eject fidelity t it!

    • Catholic Lady says:

      This is not about feelings it is about “Money” – now gay couples will be entitled to the same tax reductions as any one else and the same death benefits – allowing them to receive inheritances and insurance from the death of a spouse. These people contribute to the country therefore it is only fair and just.

      • Ann (WOC) says:

        Again, really insightful CL. However, I disagree that it is not about feelings as well: Love between two responsible, consenting adults should be recognized by the state for the sake of the adults and the family/children they create together. Society is enriched by the stability of these relationships in their contributions of healthy children and social involvement. This is about so much more than feelings, but it is about feelings and affirmation of sexual intimacy between two loving, responsible adults as well. Good for the Supremes and good for US society; we are catching up to Canada! Thanks CL as always.

  16. truth says:

    Compassion but never the sanctification of something that is contrary to human nature.
    The church is Truth because Jesus Christ her Founder is Truth.
    Opinion and majority does not count. Jesus in scripture in order to free us is not on a popularity contest but teaches truth. Free will to accept or not accept. Prayer and fasting open the eyes to truth.

  17. E3 says:

    If that’s the case then, it’s because the majority have exchanged Truth for a lie.

    • Jpack says:

      Yes, you are quoting from Paul in Romans 1. No wonder Evangelical churches are now filling with Roman Catholics because the church and local priests have stopped teaching the inerrancy of the Bible and moved to the socialism gospel.

    • Catholic Lady says:

      The “Truth” is still the “Truth” – you do not change the truth by treating all citizens with respect – no matter what their “Race” – “Religion” or “Sexural Orintation” – Your people bemoan the treatment of “Christians” in countries throughout the world who are not “Christian” countries, while seeking to deprive your own citizens of being treated equally and fairly.

      • jmstalk says:

        Catholic Lady, you completely miss the point that the traditional laws recognizing the bonds of a man and woman in marriage were available to everyone without distinction or discrimination. That is because these laws were written to protect children who are the fruit of that bond. The law never forbid people with SSA from entering into these unions where pro-creation is possible. You are utterly confused about what the historical reasons why society made these laws in the first place.

      • Ann (WOC) says:

        Yes CL.

  18. stellahermit says:

    Well, in case you are not aware yet, after 2000+ years, the Catholic Church does not live by the results of surveys. We have our Lord Jesus Christ who left us instructions that He was the Way, the Truth and the Light. If anyone wants to follow him he must pick up his cross and follow him. Obviously, some of us have to carry crosses that are heavier than others but these crosses are what lead us to Eternal Life. Jesus did not tell anyone they HAD to follow. He gave all of us the free will to follow by our choice. Now, no matter how much the world changes around us, and is changing more and more and turning away from the narrow path, those who want to can leave this path and those who don’t can go their own way. Not need to try to justify your choices. You are also free to decide the which fork in the road you want to take.

  19. Recovering Catholic says:

    A portion of the population is straight male; a portion is straight female and a portion seems to be inbetween. Now that everything is out in the open, this seems to be fact. So what are we going to do about it — deny this? We all have relatives or extended-family relatives today who say they are gay. No wonder Catholics are conflicted on this issue. We love our relatives unconditionally, don’t we? Jesus said we are to do that. Yet, the rules of the Catholic Church are so hateful toward them. Are they to go through life alone with no “significant other?” You can only have one of those if you fit in? There’s a lot to wrangle with here.

    • Recovering Catholic says:

      P.S. However, that being said, being involved in promiscuity such as the Vatican callboy sex rings or the priest abuse of children is quite another matter. That is wrong for everyone, whether homosexual or heterosexual, because there is no love from the heart wishing the best for the other person involved. Promiscuity is selfish and irresponsible and, as we are seeing, very destructive to the Catholic Church.

    • Cradle Catholic says:

      Recovering Catholic: you are absolutely wrong about the Catholic Church! It’s people in the Church that eschew this hatred you talk about. The Church’s teachings are right to the point. Gay sex, in the eyes of God and Church doctrine is morally grave. Meaning one cannot get into Heaven unless they repent of such immoral action; same as murder, same as extra-marital sex. However, the Church also teaches that those who have same sex attractions should be treated and given the same dignity that must be given to ALL people, regardless of what sins they are attached to.

    • jmstalk says:

      The Church is NOT hateful to them. People label others when their arguments are weak and cannot stand up to the opposition’s position. That is what you are doing.

      I heard my 14 year old daughter tell her friend on the phone that true love is not feelings but being willing to give up oneself for the other, ‘not caring what happens to you because of your care for what happens to the other’. She intuitively understood agape love, which is the love Jesus Christ showed us. An authentic reading of the Gospels indicates that Jesus told people the truth, not what they wanted to hear and THAT is why they killed him. He did not follow or surrender to the popular practices and beliefs of the day, nor to the leaders who promoted false teachings. Therefore, He was crucified. The same is true today: true love is telling our family members the truth about sin and encouraging them to remain faithful to Christ. Love is telling someone the truth, not manufacturing a lie so they can ‘feel alright in their sin’.

      • jmstalk knows what he is talking about. A future saint in my eyes and every traditional Catholic. History proves that Catholicism is the Church Jesus started and if he is God, He doesn’t make mistakes. The fact that the CC has not wimped out and oked contraception proves it is the truth.

    • D Nixic says:

      The rules of the Catholic Church? Did Jesus not begin the Church? Hateful? The creative power to create life is so sacred that the state of holy matrimony was sanctified by Jesus himself and elevated to a sacrament. Any other attempt by man or society to belittle this sacrament by saying male to male or female to female is the same is actually the devil himself working to destroy this sacrament and thus the work of Jesus and His Church. You sir like the devil have turned truth into the enemy. Jesus said the path to heaven is narrow. It takes courage to stand up to all of society in the name of Jesus and then”hateful” rules He instituted. There is battle raging for souls. And the devil is like a lion roaring in search of souls to damn forever. He uses whatever tactics he can use to confuse. The sure way to heaven is the bark of Peter or the Catholic Church. Get on board there is plenty of space.

  20. JimmyChonga says:

    B.S. Talk to the CATHOLICS that sit in the pews every Sunday, tithe their hard-warned wage . . . the REAL Catholics. This article is an exercise in spreading LEFTIST propaganda. Did you know that 87% of THOSE Catholics VOTED ROMNEY in the last election???

    • Ann (WOC) says:

      So real Catholics are the ones who provide the money? Best capitalist interpretation of the faith I’ve heard so far.

      • TRL says:

        Real Catholics follow the teachings of the Catholic Church, not just the ones they feel good about or agree with.

        • Catholic Lady says:

          “Real Catholics” follow all the teachings of the Catholic Church, but remember that all citizens are not Catholic…Some of us desire “Freedom of Religion” while seeking to tell others how to live their lives -

          • jmstalk says:

            All the while, the radical gay agenda is shoving their value system down our throats, in our schools, suing anyone who does not want to ‘go along’ with them. Catholic Lady, you are sadly mistaken and exactly the reason we are in this situation to begin with. The Bishops, together with the Pope, have teaching authority over baptized Catholics and we are required to affirm all that the Church teaches through the Magisterium. If you cannot affirm authentic Catholic teaching, you are an apostate; if you advocate a position other than what the Church teaches, your are a heretic. Repent, go to Confession, and ask God to forgive you for thinking you know more than He does

            • Amen jmstalk, you are right on the mark!

            • D Nixic says:

              Amen Brother!!!!!

            • Catholic Lady says:

              “Judge not, and you will not be juded; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For the measure you give will be the measure you get back” The words of our Lord as found in the book of Luke 6:37
              perhaps jmstalk; it is you and those who so readily agree with your comment that should also join me in going to confession.

          • Ann (WOC) says:

            Intelligent CL strikes again! Yes CL.

    • Jpack says:

      Pew Research in Washington DC says 53% of RC’s voted for Obama –down slighty from 2008 but still a majority of RC’s supporting Obama. Please cite your source that almost 90% of RC’s voted for Romney. That’s not plausible especically when the USCCB is so gung ho on amnesty for illegal immigration and every social welfare program in the history of mankind.

    • What do you mean by B.S JimmyChonga, do you know that when a person gives in to abusing the other person in an arguement, that shows he has lost the arguement.

  21. Jon_in_Charlotte says:

    The percentages of Catholics who agree or diagree with the Church’s position on homosexuality parallels the percentages of Catholics who attend Mass regularly versus rarely or never attending.

    Recent CARA research (2012) shows that 24 percent of Catholics attend Mass regularly (a weekly basis). 64 % of Catholics polled attend a few times a year to not at all. Among this group of Catholics who rarely attend Mass over 90 % do not believe in the true presence of Jesus Christ in the the Holy Eucharist. In essence over 60% of Catholics do not believe in what the Church teaches is the source and summit of their faith. If this group does not accept the most fundamental and significant teaching of the Church why would they accept a less significant teaching – homosexuality being a sin.

    Persons who rarely attend Mass are not practicing Catholics. If non-practicing Catholics are polled to provide an opinion on the Catholic perspective they are not going to provide the Catholic perspective, but rather a secularized perspective.

    Poll practicing Catholics who actually attend Mass on a regular basis and discover their position on Church teaching and homosexuality.

    • El Cid says:

      Completely agree with you. These polls that constantly cite “Catholics” are flawed. The other side knows it and they continue doing it, so it favors their agenda.

    • Catholic Lady says:

      Jon in Charlotte – Catholics, who receive Christ at Mass daily are more likely to see the world through the eyes of Jesus. Jesus came into this world not to condemn but to offer life. We like Jesus invite our fellow man to come, join us at the table – and in living the christian life – we like Jesus meet our fellow man where he is, on the highways and biways – offerring to them something better and being welcomming to all: rejoicing when we see others being reconcilled to Christ..

    • Jpack says:

      And when is the last time your parish priest spoke on sin or homosexual behavior by using Romans 1 or Leviticus, –1956? Of course, that assumes the priest is able to find where Romans and Leviticus are in the Bible.

  22. Zeebus says:

    Alright, at least we have proof now that 71% of people who call themselves, “Catholic” are nothing but poorly catechized folks who care more what the media tells them than what God does.

  23. Greg says:

    WHY ? You’re not Catholic if you except this immoral practice.

  24. SJM says:

    Well, here’s the thing: There is a foundational difference between a Sacramental marriage and a secular marriage. That difference is so fundamental and profound that the Catholic Church does not even acknowledge the validity of a secular marriage. Whatever parameters the laws place around secular marriage address what is nothing more than a legal compact between two individuals. It has no theological or sacred import. As Catholics, we need to put far more energy into advancing the sacred covenant of a Sacramental marriage rather than investing so much energy into the definition of a secular marriage. Our passion around this issue only serves to blur the lines between what happens at the altar in the church and what happens before the bench in the courthouse. As far as Catholic teaching is concerned, two people whether straight or gay who enter into a secular marriage are “living in sin” (although aren’t we all in one way or another?). As for me, I’m not interested in using our civil government as a tool for eliminating sin. First, because it’s a fool’s errand. There will always be sin. Second, because we as Christians need to concern ourselves with changing hearts, not changing laws. And third, because I’m not interested in living in a theocracy.

  25. agv says:

    We will never make any kind of peace on these hot-button issues if our immediate reaction is name-calling and invective. Old axiom: in medio virtus stat — virtue (goodness and truth) as well as a way of dealing peaceably with our differences and “non-negotiable” presumptions, are found somewhere in the middle ground.

  26. JimmyChonga says:

    These so-called “Catholics” that believe they can combine oil and water, life and death, construction and Destruction, are bound to be sorely disappointed when the 4-horsemen are let loose and take their ride against fallen humanity.

    • Recovering Catholic says:

      That already happens within yourself. The Book of Revelation is your spiritual journey here on Earth!

    • You must be a Bible thumper or fundmentalist. Yuo are the one who is going to be surprised. You skip over many verses in the Bible while misinterpreting others to have them fit your agenda. You ignore Scripture on Confession, Eucharist, Thou art Peter (Papacy) and many more. In the book of James is the Sacrament of Extreme Unction or the anointing of the sick (James 5:14-15) “Is one of you sick? Let him, anointing him with OIL in the Lord’s name. Prayer offered in faith will restore the sick man, and the Lord will give him relief; IF HE IS GUILTY OF SINS, THEY WILL BE PARDONED.”

  27. Campos says:

    The “American Catholic” is as arrogant as the American who thinks we should dictate to the world what is right and wrong. They put their politics before their faith. I am tired of seeing this happen over and over. When will we decide that God is all and His Commandments rule above all. Pray!

  28. Andrew says:

    Sad but not surprising considering all the selfish worldliness that infiltrated the Anerican Catholic Church after Vatican II. It’s appalling that so many Catholics are proudly defiant of Church Teaching. May God have mercy on us!

    • John Kelly says:

      Can we recognize our norms about sexuality among other things change? Should we maintain the biblical line, “slaves, be obedient to your masters” or accept as dictum Paul’s admonition “wives, be subservient to your husbands.” Not that long ago being left-handed was considered an aberation. I don’t know if the Church called it “disordered” but it was cause for barring individuals from the religious orders.

    • Recovering Catholic says:

      Andrew,
      May God have mercy on those without compassion!

      • Catholic Lady says:

        God will have mercy on Andrews soul – for God loves Andrew and knows Andrew; every little hidden part of what has contributed to the forming of Andrew and his opinions. For what it’s worth, Andrew, I’m sorry for your pain.

      • Laura Hebert says:

        You sound like one of them.

      • Anderson Thomas says:

        Andrew compassion and compromise are two different things. Compassion is found on the narrow path to heaven, Compromise on the broad highway to hell.

      • Ann (WOC) says:

        . . . not to mention the phoney piety that grows out of Andrew’s self-righteous indignation of sinners!

  29. Florian says:

    The church also believes that sexual relations within a valid marriage are sinful. The church used to believe that eating meat on Friday was sinful. And the church used to burn witches at the stake, too.

    So it’s no wonder that so many Catholics are at odds with their church. They should be.

    • Amar says:

      Try looking up the veracity of any of those statements. You are grossly uninformed and should keep comments like this to yourself.

      • James says:

        Active homosexuality is condemned in Leviticus as well as 1 Cor and 1 Tim. Do you disagree? If so, why?

      • Recovering Catholic says:

        Amar, as an older person who grew up pre-Vatican II, what this guy is saying is true.

        • Cradle Catholic says:

          There’s no way you are a Recovering Catholic. Amar: you are correct. Don’t listen to this uninformed former Catholic.

        • Laura Hebert says:

          Recovering Catholic, I think your memory is shot. Amar is at least partially correct. I don’t think your’e doing to well in what you consider recovery. But hopefully GOD will send someone to set you straight if your intentions are honorable.

          • James says:

            Laura, Active homosexuality is condemned in Leviticus as well as 1 Cor and 1 Tim. This is supported by Church documents.

    • Anderson Thomas says:

      Florian, Catholic, Or the church teaching is: “failure to honor you spouse (engage in sexual relations is a grave sin) And a marriage is not complete until the marriage is consummated The purpose of marriage is for two to joint together (in holy matrimony) and raise up children to God: PRO-CREATE. pro is Latin for with. Create with who but GOD! Florian, rather than spouting off in ignorance, don’t you think it would be better for antichrist heathens to keep quite? Better to reamain silent and let people to think you are an ignoramus, than take to WWW and confirm it.

      • Ann (WOC) says:

        Thanks Florian. Anderson Thomas’s rude comments add nothing and are incorrect. The church has changed so many times relative to sexual morality within marriage, it ought to stay out and recognize that celibacy is not a tutor for what is sexually appropriate in a marriage between two loving, consenting, responsible adults. As for mean on Friday. . . well enough said.

    • William Evans says:

      Actually, the Church never “burned withches”. It was the sentence of European monarchs. Further, Abstaining from meat on Fridays was never a DOCTRINAL teaching. It was a “discipline” and subject to modification by the Church. Nevertheless, to ignore such disciplines is to ignore the authority given to the Church by Jesus, Himself.

  30. Sue Abdo says:

    So, after all these years of being politically correct, the percentages would probably be the same,or higher, if the a church had preached from the pulpit what God says about homosexuality, not only in the ahold Testament, but in Romans and Revelation.

  31. James says:

    Dosn’t matter what the people say. God says homosexual acts are immoral.

    • tanya says:

      that’s the truth.

    • Campos says:

      Agreed, James. As I read the article, I couldn’t help think it doesn’t matter what “American Catholics” say. They are not God, who condemns the sin, not the sinner.

    • Ann (WOC) says:

      That’s because God wrote the bible James!

    • Ann (WOC) says:

      God also said crazy bishops can run the Vatican and women can never be ordained and that now its ok to eat meat of Friday. Sometimes God gets confused don’t you think?

      • James says:

        Ann(WOC), most of your arguments have nothing to do with Church Doctrines. They are individuals faults and disciplines. Jesus said “what thou shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, what thou shall loose on earth shall be loose in heaven.” You go against Jesus’ teaching on church authority.

        • Andrew says:

          Thank you James and I totally agree. Ann is a radical feminist and as evidenced by her daily postings on this board, she is on a mission to (try to) convince others that the Catholic Church can and should change to please the feminist agenda. She openly supports abortion, contraception, gay marriage, women priesthood and pretty much anything else in defiance to Church teaching. People like Ann have diabolical intentions and need lots of prayers.

          • Tony says:

            Ann, Christ is scripture tells us that we may not divorce yet the church finds ways to get around that and seek annulments and that those who go through an annulment process are as welcomed to receive Holy Communion as a kid in grade school making his firt Communion.
            How Accomedating of the Chruch.
            The Chruch had Joan are Arc burnt at the stake for being a heritic, Today she is a saint.
            The Holy Office condemned Gallilio and a few years ago John Paul II apoligised for that action.
            The church may grow out of its condemnations of committed homosexuality when more is found out about it’s causes.

            • James says:

              Tony, the Church did not have Joan of Arc burnt at the stake. The English church did. Not the Catholic Church. Get your facts straight. Galileo was given the opportunity to prove the sun centered theroy bu the Church, but he failed to explain parallax. Copernicus hypothezied the sun was the center of the solor system before Galileo yet he was not charged by the Church in any way. Why? Galileo insisted his idea was a fact but given the chance could not prove it.

            • James says:

              Tony, the anus was structured for exit not entry.

            • James says:

              Tony, Jesus does give an exception – i.e., when the ‘marriage’ is not a marriage to begin with – like incest.

      • TobiasRaphael1 says:

        Ann, you embrace excess emotion and repel rational argument in your statements.
        Why is this so?

  32. Terik Ororke says:

    Accepting humans who are as they say “gay” is one thing; condoning sin by them or by so called “straights” is another. God is a loving God, but He is God and not us.

  33. Recovering Catholic says:

    Larry, I don’t think I’ve ever heard it put so eloquently!

  34. Jpack says:

    There is no such thing as a Bible toting Catholic. When did you ever see a Catholic carrying his or her Bible to church? Or a Priest? They only use snippets from a Lectionary.

  35. Laura Hebert says:

    Larry, have you had your pschy exam lately? The U.S. Constitution is hardly recognizable in our nation anymore. And I can’t imagine where you got your sick idea of what a Catholic is like. And consider this: Most Americans involved in writing the constitution were not Catholic but were Christian. The ensuing laws were very largely agreed to by Catholics.

  36. Ann (WOC) says:

    Agree RC and Larry.

  37. Cradle Catholic says:

    Are you sure you’re a recovering Catholic? Or are you a Former, Recovering (now back into relapse) Catholic?

  38. jhclaw@gmail.com says:

    The Bible is a Catholic book.

  39. Jpack says:

    Then start using it, –all of it, not just some of it.

  40. Ann (WOC) says:

    Of course jhc the Bible is Catholic, because God is Catholic! . . . and whatever the Catholic church and the crazy bishops will, God wills!!!! Why can’t everyone see that?!

  41. Ann (WOC) says:

    So. . . what is your point Laura? Most Buddhists, Muslims, Protestants, or Jews would not agree totally with the Constitution. We are a pluralist, democratic society not a theocracy run by a doctrinaire clergy; compromise is necessary. Thank you Larry, as always.

  42. Leatherhead says:

    There is no fee for an annulment.

  43. Tony says:

    In the diocese I’m in its about 1500.00 but to be fair, if a couple can’t afford it provisions may be made.

  44. leatherhead says:

    Larry I work for a Canon Lawyer who issues them. I know far more about them than you ever will – THERE IS NO FEE FOR AN ANNULMENT. I challenge you to show me written evidence that there is. I don’t tell lies, give me one example of something I have said that is untrue. I have told you this before so either put up or shut up!

  45. Tony says:

    Larry that was the best and so right on particularly addressing ship head.

  46. Tony says:

    The Tribunal iss use annulments, then they are further review by a tribunal in an Archdiocese. So leather yea
    D you are wrong perhaps your name should be shiphead.

  47. leatherhead says:

    Tony / Larry The Canon Lawyer I work for is a Judge on the Metropolitan Tribunal of the Second Instance, he grants the Annulments. As I said Larry instead of the insults give an example of lie that I am supposed to have told? As I said put up or shut up!

  48. Tony says:

    Shiphead, call any diocese you want in the country and ask them for the fee for an annulment. Case closed

  49. Tony says:

    Larry I think what ship head may be doing is plaing games and he is going to say there is no charge for the annulment but rather the fee goes for office and administrative work. It’s
    The same BS as there is no charge for a mass, but we ain’t saying it for you without a fifteen solar donation.

  50. James says:

    But it dosn’t address the points I make.

 
 

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