Catholics recall how life has changed since Vatican II
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Fifty years ago, Catholic priests turned around and started facing their parishioners at Mass.
Nuns shed their habits. Mass was conducted in languages other than Latin. Parishioners began visiting the houses of worship of other faiths. And Jews were no longer discredited as the people who killed Jesus.
These were just some of the radical changes approved by Pope John XXIII, who convened the Second Vatican Council, also known as Vatican II, 50 years ago this month. Many Catholics reveled in these developments, believing they would have an enormous effect on the church’s position in the modern world.
The changes spurred Janice Feaman, of Boca Raton, to convert from the Episcopal Church in 1982.
“Before Vatican II, I wouldn’t have converted,” said Feaman, 59, a book editor. “The church was opening itself up for questioning and listening to other points of view. There was an emphasis on ecumenical outreach and inclusivity. It took a while to filter down, but by the 1980s, it was what everyone in America was talking about.”
Pope Benedict XVI has launched a “Year of Faith” for Catholics around the world to commemorate Vatican II and remind them that the council was not a break from the past but a faith that should remain steady in a changing world.
As sex-abuse scandals, debates over priestly celibacy and a Vatican investigation of American nuns occupy the headlines, the Year of Faith is a “call for the church to renew itself in faith, to express it with more conviction and greater coherency,” said Archbishop Thomas Wenski, of the Archdiocese of Miami.
Sister Frances Madigan, of Boca Raton, had been a nun for 15 years when Vatican II changes began to be implemented. Her order, the Adrian Dominican Sisters, decided to modernize their habits. She remembers the stares she got from parishioners when she began wearing a simple veil and dresses that showed more of her legs.
“It was a breath of fresh air to talk to people who were dressed the same way we were,” said Madigan, who has retired but volunteers as a literacy coach at St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church in Boca Raton. “We realized we were part of a larger cosmic global reality.”
Madigan, who lived in Chicago at the time, said she felt drawn to social justice work and helped build a food pantry and bereavement program at her parish.
“The changes challenged us to do things like that,” she said. “It was exhilarating to invite people to join us.”
The Rev. Thomas Foudy, of St. Coleman Catholic Church in Pompano Beach, said he felt the same way. He was a young seminarian in his native Ireland at the time.
“The laity were no longer looked upon as passengers,” Foudy said. “We started dialoguing with non-Catholics. There were new ideas coming out every day.”
Dan Lonteen, co-chair of the theology department at Cardinal Gibbons High School in Fort Lauderdale, said he remembers pre-Vatican II days when priests kept their backs to parishioners at Mass. He said he tries to share the sense of inspiration Catholics felt in the ’60s and ’70s with his students today. [More]
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27 Comments
or Angelo and his cast there is a group called Society of Puis the !0th. He will be most welcomed there and the tension & stress of Vat2 will be removed fom his existence.
TPD, I am familiar with the SSPX. I assure you I am not welcomed there. I accept Vatican ll in its entirety, what I reject as Pope Bendict XVl does, all the false interpretaions of the Council. As Benedict XVl said, “What was said at the Council and what was done after the Council, are two totaly different things.”. Ever heard of the “Reform of the Reforms”, all the errors of liberalism are at its end. Deo Gratias!
I began to attend Catechism in the first grade in 1965. I and others my age witnessed the Church spinning out of control. We were taught something one day and it changed the next. We were the guinea pigs of the false interpretaions of the Council. We were not taught a sound Catholic faith, as there was change after change and it was nonstop. All this caused my generation great damage to our faith. As the older generation rejoiced, we were being tossed into every direction by an evil wind. I was one of the lucky ones, a change of priest in our parish brought us a new priest who taught us the Catholic Faith unchanged. I overheard a conversation by two parishioners on their opinion of the new pastor, I will never forget their words, “They took the Church away from us. But this priest is giving it back to us”. What was all the modern rejoicing about? Were they happy that the Church was being shred to pieces”. Thank God those ugly days are coming to an end.
The Catholic Church is basicaly the Creed which has been maintained from the time of the apostles.
What has changed, if anything, was the change on emphisis.
Angelo, by simply writing what you have written you are partaking in the benefits of Vatican II. Prior to Vatican II if you had questioned the Church in any way you were silenced. But you are questioning the CHurch by questioning Vatican II. You should rejoice in the fact that you are able to do so. But you want something back that you never had. You want a Church where the only thing you need is what is spoon-fed to you. You want a faith where you do not have to think, you only have to obey like a zombie. You want the church of the Pahrisees and Saducees who tell you what, when, how often without ever having to think of “why.” You want the formula for salvation where you only have to check off the boxes and do not have to do a real evaluation of your life. You want black and white in a world that is filled with grey. You want a religion that does not require anything more of you than to do what is set down as mandatory. You want a relationship with God that is justified by minimalistic approach so that you do not have to feel uncomfortable because God asks for the maximum. You want to participae in something that upsets your preconceived notions even though Jesus calls challenges us to be renewed. You want something that does not develop but is always the same. You want to leave your faith and relationship with God as immature because it is easier that growing up. Thank God for Vatican II – or we may all be just like you.
Thak you concerned for that theological reflection.
Concerned, I was taught what the pre-vatican ll Church was like. You must have been somewhere else during that period. Tony calls your reply a “Theological reflection”, It seems Tony got hit really hard by the distortions after Vatican ll. He does’nt even know what theology is. Do you see what I mean? Tony must be about my age and he was one of the unlucky ones. I have gone to Traditional Chapels, and asked the priests questions, I have yet to be turned away. When I was 18 the only priests we could rely on for Fatherly counsel were the ones liberals called pre-vatican ll priests. The priests that have turned me away were the post-vatican ll priests. Several modern priests have refused to hear my confessions on the grounds they were invited by friends for lunch or dinner. Most priests are never available, golf, days off, parties ect… Concerned, you painted a totaly false picture. I have found God in Traditional Catholicism, because modern catholicism has no room for him. Its all about them, me, I. With no room for God.
Angelo, the most basic definition of Theology as offered by St. Anselm is “faith seeking understanding.” Something that the pre-Vatican II discouraged anyone from doing. I am roughly the same age as you, actually a year or two older based on the year you were in first grade, so I know only too well the Church of pre-vatican II. I grew up in an area where the Bishop fought every change of Vatican II and only permitted it kicking and screaming. I am only too knowledgeable of the control, misuse of power, desire to be seen as important that was prevelant in the Church. I am very aware of the lack of participation and the thought that as long as you did exactly what you were told that was all that mattered. I am very aware of the empty, hollow feeling of “attending” Mass as opposed to joining in and fully participating. There were 12 priests in the Rectory of the Parish I grew up in – and not one of those pre-Vatican II priests demonstrated an ounce of humanity, talked with the people rather than “at” the people. Not one of those priests was inviting to the children who attended the Parish School. I am very aware of the priests today who lament Vatican II – they were not even born yet and never experienced pre-Vatican II. And each one of those younger priests are ones looking for ppower, prestige, and a place of honor. They care nothing about the message of Jesus Christ. Yes, there are lazy, selfish liberal priests and lazy, selfish conservative priests. Neither has anything to do with Vatican II or its desire for renewal. Vatican II is about renewal. It is about getting people to own their faith – not simply spew out what was told to them. You may do well to understand faith a little more.
Concerned, So I see you are also a victim of the post Vatican ll nightmare. Much of what you say is in error. Oh! BTW Theology comes from 2 Greek words Theo and Logos which together mean the study of God. You need to lay off the modernism and learn what the Catholic Church really is. Also stop running wild judging others. Not good for your soul.
You are the person who is going around judging others, calling others names and suggesting what may be good for our “”souls.” What hubris to think you know more than St Anselm, one of the great Fathers of the Church.
Concerned, Your funny! Look at all your posts. I always speak to others in their own vernacular. I responded to you, the way you speak to others. I see you perhaps are among those who proudly say they speak their minds. But when addressed in the same manner then they run to the hurt feelings department. Learn the true Catholic Faith, and make yourself part of it.
Post of Oct, 23, 2012 at 9:00 PM. Is not a post written by Angelo. Mix up or a trick?
I’ll ignore the post below since you say it is not you. I know full well the root of the word but as I said as a most basic definition St. Anselm gave us that definition. Is St. Anselm too modern for you? I am not a victim of the post Vatican II – I am liberated because of it. You just don’t want to think for yourself – you need everything fed to you like a baby. It’s time to grow up and have a real relationship with God.
Concerned, I do think for myself. Thats why I for 35 years have rejected the modernism that has caused much destruction to the faith of so many Catholics. I do not know who St. Anselm is, but because he is a cononized Saint he would have said nothing in error. As for a relationship with God, I learned from traditional Catholics to seek it with more than I can imagine. You need to read a pre-vatican ll book and learn what a true relationship with Christ really is. I assure you that it will not be found in the “Upheavel in the Church” as Pope Paul Vl put it. Your modernist religion is coming to an end. Read what Pope Benedict XVl has been saying. Heretics were infuriated when he was elected Pope, they well knew that with him their party was over.
Vatican II is pure proof the the leadership of the church does not know how to handle success. Tony you ststed the gifts well
One of the greatest gifts of Vatican II is the call to Holiness of the Laity.
Another gift is the call of the laity to greater participation in the church, so it isn’t just Bishops, priests and Religious women and men who are called to ministry.
Another gift is the renewal of the permanent diaconate.
Tony, What is your definition of Holiness?
One is Holy who lives as a disciple of Jesus, who loves himself and interacts with God and his fellow men and women as Jesus taught us.
Tony, Sounds like modernist jargon. My definition of Holiness is this. Life is a pilgrimage, our path to heaven or hell. to seek our sanctification with complete trust in God. To love our Most Holy Mother and to take refuge in her Motherly protection. To obey all the commandments and precepts of the Catholic Church. To do spiritual reading and to pray pray pray much. To avoid sinning against God, ourselves, our neighbhor. To seek to do good to others and avoid doing them wrong. The 7 Sacraments being the foundation of our very existance. Especially frequent confession and frequent communion. To live in faith, hope and charity. To obey the Holy Father in all he tells us, as he is the voice of God on earth. To seek a life pleasing to God so as to gain eternal salvation. God created me, so I must serve him and seek to serve him well, so that I may live life to the full. Those who lived before the Council taught me all this. Of course there is much more, but this will suffice for now.
I have faith in Jesus and try to live as his disciple. I try to walk humbly with my God and love my neighbor as myself.
I try to see the face of Jesus in everyone and treat everyone as I would treat Jesus.
Tony, Sounds like your reading off cue cards.
Angelo, all those are very nice words. They are wonderfully spewn forth right from the textbooks. Now, what does it mean? How does it play out in the reality of life? Have you ever heard Jesus say, “give it all away and then come follow me?” You hang on to those words as though the words themselves will save you. Invite some renewal into your life.
Concerned, Is it really that hard for you to understand the type of life I’m speaking of. I guess after learning it from Traditional Catholics, I thought everyone knew what it meant and how it is lived. The answer to what overwhelmingly confuses you is very simple. One just lives it out!
I am not confused at all. But it is obvious that you can only repeat responses you have learned and that none of it comes from your heart. There are apps that can repeat every word – don’t you ever want to be more than that?
Concerned, Take my word for it, you live in a confused Catholicism. I have no confusion whatsover about the Church in the last 45 years, its been a disgrace. But thank the Holy Ghost its all coming to an end.
Concerned, You say that I only repeat responses that I have heard. The reponses I give, is in fact what I have heard and I made it an integral part of my life. This is backed up by scripture, “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God”. Today traditional minded Catholics know what that truly means.
History tells us that these “radical” changes were in fact long overdue. It’s no surprise that many Catholics stayed where they stood before the council, neither is it a surprise that disaffected curial types are still trying to “reform the reform” with consummate authority.
Some day (soon?) a pope and a small child may be heard to ask: “Can we all get along? Can we get along?” Now THAT would indeed be a radical change!