The 2012 presidential campaign could bear a new subtitle: A Tale of Two Catholics.
For the first time in U.S. history, both sides of the ballot include Roman Catholics: Democrats’ Vice President Joe Biden, and Republicans’ newly named vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan.
Ryan, 42, still belongs to the Catholic parish, St. John Vianney in Janesville, Wis., where he was an altar boy. Biden, 69, the first Catholic vice president in U.S. history, attends Mass at St. Patrick’s Parish and St. Joseph on the Brandywine Church, both in Wilmington, De.
Biden and Ryan both cite their faith as a formative influence, but neither is known as a standard-bearer for the Catholic hierarchy’s chief political causes: abortion and gay marriage. In fact, the two candidates are — politically at least — nearly polar opposites.
Biden agrees with the church on social justice issues like poverty, but runs afoul on gay marriage and abortion rights. Ryan, meanwhile, agrees with Catholic doctrine on abortion and gay marriage, but clashes with church leaders on social justice issues.
With Catholics comprising nearly a quarter of the U.S. electorate — and nearly a third in Midwestern swing states — the “Who’s the Better Catholic?” debate may become far more than an intrachurch squabble.
“It really has the potential to have a huge impact on this election,” said Maria Mazzenga, a historian at Catholic University in Washington.
Neither the Democratic nor Republican party platforms perfectly align with the wide body of Catholic social doctrine, which encompasses views on everything from war to economics to the unborn.
“The official teachings of the church can’t really be put into one camp or the other,” said Mazzenga.
So Catholic politicians must often choose between church and party orthodoxy, said R. Scott Appleby, a professor of history at the University of Notre Dame. [more]
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46 Comments
Both are Catholic in their own unique way according to their own unique consciences. I’m looking forward to the first vice presidential debate. Can you imagine Ayn Rand debating Saul Alinsky? We’ll see it soon!
Biden is a cafeteria catholic. if you look at his financial reports, he does not contribute to the catholic church. Biden pretends he grew up in a blue collar home when in fact his family owned auto dealerships.
THAT explains it, Margaret. I couldn’t put my finger on it, but now that you mention it, Biden does indeed look like a car salesman.
Hey Jim!
Moving to the top.
You are one of the best at whatever you are best at.
Got another interesting thing you might be able to use. Stop me if you have heard it.
At a conference the speaker takes the podium.
Speaker: How many people her want to go to Heaven?
Everybody raises their hand.
Speaker: How many want to go now?
Silence……….
Enjoy
This hurts! This hurts a whole lot but I have to say it.
I agree with you.
Make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Ah, come on, Dennis — even a stopped clock is in line with exact time twice per day. There always is the chance your opinion and my opinion may line up in the future again. Actually, if we both get to Heaven, I’m sure our opinions will be in complete agreement then, at least with regard to theological issues.
Use that line a lot!
But I say:
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Got a Confucius saying for you:
A man with one watch always knows what time it is. But a man with two watches is never quite sure.
The lesson is intellectually deep – very, very deep.
But that makes sense. Moral of the story: know who is telling you the truth, and reject all the others. The Catholic Church’s Magisterial teachings are the truth, and anything that disagrees with them is wrong. The Catholic Church is the “pearl of great price” (Matthew 13:44-46) — one who finds it counts everything else as nothing (following the metaphor, one who gets a Rolex watch could care less what his other watch says).
Jim. Threw you a bone on that one (which you usually catch) but you missed it. They didn’t have watches when Confucius lived.
The entire quote is:
It is possible to own too much. A man with one watch knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never quite sure.
It is by Lee Segal.
On a different level one could argue that the saying points out that someone that only knows one side of an issue is certain he is right. But a person that can see both/many sides of an argument is forced to consider the possibility that they don’t know the answer.
I like your interpretation but it is based on the belief that one can tell who is telling the truth. Bit of a stretch based on my life.
BTW, Dennis, care to tell us your occupation? And if you are still working or retired?
I did tell you and you accused me of misrepresenting myself.
I have had a very unique life like everybody else.
I am working as we speak. I do web things and my bedroom is my office. I sleep on the left side of the bed so it doesn’t take me as long to get to work in the morning.
Thanks for that info, Dennis — but, didn’t you disavow being a rocket scientist?
Just for you Jim.
I worked for Rockwell (prime contractor) doing R&D for the space shuttle in Downey, CA. Walked through the full-scale mock-up almost daily. Met some extremely brilliant people which made me rather humble.
Thanks, Dennis. We have a lot in common: I once watched the space shuttle on television.
Morning Margaret.
If you call Biden a cafeteria Catholic then you would probably prefer for me refer to Ryan as a Catholic in Name Only (CINO).
But I won’t because that is like saying:
DINO – Dead in Name Only
or
BINO – Blind in Name Only
or
PINO – Pregnant in Name Only
etc.
But I wont.
HE IS NOT A CATHOLIC!!!
Actions speak louder than words.
Sorry, Dennis, your metaphor here doesn’t fit. No one, for example, can be dead in name only, or preganant in name only; but, you certainly can be Catholic in name only.
Witness Joe Biden, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Kathleen Sebilius. They are disgusting representatives of Catholicism. John Kerry once called himself a “devout Catholic.” That has to be one of the biggest mis-statements of all time.
You are entitled to your opinion but it all revolves around pro choice.
You got a big problem with Ryan with his Objectivism philosophy since Objectivism strongly supports pro choice.
Sorry, Jim, you are wrong. The metaphor does fit.
There is not such thing as dead, deader, and deadest. And there is no such thing as Catholic, Catholicer, Catholicist.
Ryan is not a Catholic.
Ryan is not a Catholic?? What are you smoking? Which one — Biden or Ryan — actually supports Church doctrine? Easy–It’s Ryan. I would know. The “social justice” dictating public policy is not Catholic doctrine taught by the Pope. There are various opinions about it, and they are not universally accepted, nor are they binding. One side can’t rightfully say to the other “You are not Catholic” because they disagree on this issue.
But are we voting for a vice president or catholic man of the year. We have had any Catholics in office who have let us down miserably
Hi Sally.
Wrong again.
Ayn Ryan is not Catholic!!!
Except maybe in your dream world. You might live in the same dimension as Jim where:
“There are no poor people in America.”
Thanks for remembering me, Dennis! Best of the evening to you, too.
Sorry Dennis. You are very biased. “Judge not lest you be Judged.” You say that Paul Ryan is not Catholic because he believes in “Objectivism.” The Churches teachings are “Objective” especially if they are defined by the Pope. Are Biden and Pelosi also uncatholic? That’s for God to judge, not you. Personally, I like Ryan and I agree with him. I hope he will be our next “Catholic” VP.
Is this working.
Sorry I can’t respond some of my emails are getting blocked.
How do I contact the site administrator?
I think you, and a lot of others, often misuse that quote about judging. What Jesus is saying is that you cannot judge ones motivations but that you can and should judge ones actions. If not was He just flinging out the money changers because they were good people just doing their jobs or was the point to make the church (temple) holy? Does He also tell us to admonish the sinner and present him to the temple priests for judgement? Each of us can judge actions, not the motivation behind it.
TM — right on (for a change, if I might add!)
TM — in re-reading your post, I will say again: you nailed it. Your post is a 98 MPH fastball on the outside part of the plate — unhittable.
I watch fix news too..You guys are funny..lYour both wasting you time & energy ! Your not going to change each others opinion!
Joe Biden is to Catholicism as obamma is to Americanism. Both are liberals who do not care for America as our terrorist president has shown in his last three years.
“Terrorist president?” I think that misstates the case. I wish he were only a terrorist. Unfortunately, he already has done much more damage to this country than any terrorist ever could — and, Americans — helped by misled, blind, CINO Catholics, are poised to put Mr. 666 back into office.
Dennis, I’m the average working class guy doesn’t know “Objectivism” from “television” and would question, “what the hell are you talking about.”
The guy is a Catholic according to common acceptance of the term Catholic,
he is an observant Catholic and that is what the average person sees.
You would hear a lot more about Ryan’s Objectivism beliefs if you got your information from more than one source (I am guessing FixNews). Other news channels have carried the story several times.
By election time you and everybody else will learn a new term – Objectivism.
Oh wow Dennis, you misspelled Fox news. It just proves my point that’ve gotta expect misspellings and poor grammar at times and can’t be distracted by it
Fool me once etc. Won’t happen again.
In any case, talk about Ryan’s Objectivism (Ayn Rand) is all over the National Catholic Register web site.
Must have been my computer.
I’m back.
I think I have reached my number of posts limit.
Wow looks like we are a real divided church. Didn’t Jesus say, “a kingdom divided against itself can not stand?”
This article is based on a fundamentally false premise:
Ryan is Catholic
Ryan is not Catholic and as a Catholic I feel insulted he calls himself Catholic.
Ryan believes in Objectivism.
His policies clearly show this. Actions speak louder than words.
Wrong Dennis.
Ryan is a Catholic, and I should know. Not sure about you?
Ryan learned about free markets as a kid from reading a couple Ayn Rand’s novels. Later when he learned her actual philosophy of Objectivism, an atheistic school of thought, he rejected it – as he should. Watch him say this himself on youtube, not hard to find at all.
Wrong Sally.
Ayn Ryan is not Catholic he is a follower of Objectivism. His proposed budget clearly follows the teachings of Objectivism and not Catholicism.
Where in the Bible does it say to take from the poor to give to the rich?
You state:
“Later when he learned her actual philosophy of Objectivism, an atheistic school of thought, he rejected it – as he should. “
What year did he have this epiphany?
Until recently (at least 2005), Ayn Rand’s works were required reading for his staff and interns.
Watch this guy on YouTube – are you kidding? I watch this guy blatantly lie everyday. Is that a Catholic in your world?
Sally.
BTW why wasn’t the Bible required reading for his staff and interns?
I know why.
Because he is not Catholic!!!
Dennis — FYI — “he is not Catholic” and “you are not Catholic” are registered trademarks belonging to me; and thus only I am allowed to use these sentences, unless I grant you permission to use them.
Gotta love ya.