Catholics pray for Paul Ryan, Joe Biden to change views
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Some Wisconsin Catholics are praying both Catholic vice presidential candidates will have a religious epiphany. They want GOP Rep. Paul Ryan to change his mind and heart about his deep-cuts budget and Vice President Biden to turn against abortion rights.
Two Franciscans, Rhett Engelking, a layman, and the Rev. Michael Crosby have launched a website Pray for Paul’s Change of Heart with a special Rosary prayer to St. Paul — the most famous of converts who once condemned Christ until he saw the light on the road to Damascas.
While praising the congressman’s sincere faith, they say they want Ryan to have that road-to-Damascus moment and see the light that the Ryan budget goes against Catholic Church teaching on the poor.
Their press release Thursday highlights the U.S. Catholic bishops’s stance that the deep budget slashes fail to meet Catholic moral criteria to protect the poor and promoted common good.
This has notably not worked with Ryan. The “Nuns on the Bus” nine-state tour this summer paused at his office to talk up the vision of a just and compassionate budget. Ryan didn’t meet them there but later had a “cordial” private conversation with the leader of the tour. Sister Simone Campbell, director of a Catholic advocacy group, Network, told The Daily Beast,
“We agreed to disagree. Actually, we both agreed that we care passionately about the future of this country. So we did find some common ground.”
Ryan, however, is not the only contender to be the Catholic vice president. The Franciscan duo also calls for prayers for Biden that he will shift to oppose abortion and protect “the born and preborn.” They back up their plea with links to the U.S. bishops.
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Dennis et al. — here is an excellent link to a National Catholic Register story on Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/the-paul-ryan-ayn-rand-connection-whats-a-catholic-to-think?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NCRegisterDailyBlog+National+Catholic+Register#When:2012-08-18
Essentially, the article explains why Paul Ryan’s qualified support of Any Rand’s philosophy is not antithetical to Catholicism.
I haven’t read it but I can’t wait.
That is impressive! What is good in Objectivism (such as geed) is evil in the Bible and and what is evil in Objectivism (helping the poor and disabled) is good in the Bible. And some person (I used person to be kind) is going to argue the beliefs are not antithetical.
Really!!!
What article did you read?
The article in your link ends with:
To be perfectly frank, I find Ayn Rand to be deeply repulsive — the dark side is, again, really dark. So, if Paul Ryan wants to attract Catholic voters, he’s going to have to make much clearer what he’s taking — and even more, what he’s leaving behind.
DENNIS — I read the same article you did — that closes with the same sentence. All that final sentence says is that, if Paul Ryan is not careful, his support for some of Rand’s philosophy will be misinterpreted as anti-Catholic.
It is impossible to misinterpret Ayn Rand’s philosophy. It is not anti-Catholic. It is antithetical to Catholic beliefs.
In fact Johnny Carson had her on his show and devoted the entire show to her interview. The show still exists. It is in black and white. Ed McMahon (Roman Catholic) was noticeably uncomfortable the entire interview.
DENNIS — well, look, you’re planning to vote against Paul Ryan anyway (I’m presuming), so you can do so in good conscience. I, on the other hand, never would vote for a ticket that is pro-choice; since, if you favor a woman’s right to choose to kill her baby, you favor violation of the most fundamental right of all, the right to life. So, I just hope you don’t live in a swing state. For example, if you live in CA or NY, it doesn’t matter — everyone knows Mr. 666 will carry those states.
Ayn Ryan believes in Objectivism and Objectivism strongly believes in pro-choice so you are a sucker if you fall for his scam. The Johnny Carson interview with Ayn Rand covers this subject in depth.
When it comes to Mitt the Twit he believes in multiple choice so just pick what time you think he was telling the truth.
Tell you what assume every candidate had the same views as yours about pro-life.
Now which political platform more closely follows your Christian beliefs.
DENNIS — If the Democrats were pro-life, they have other problems. In particular, Democratic party officials announced recently that they are going to add gay marriage to their platform — this clearly will undermine the stability of society, and is squarely against Church teaching. Also, the Democrats horrible borrowing is grossly immoral — I do not believe there is any way to get out of the mess we’re in, and I think the consequences will be far worse than most assume. Also, I simply can’t support many other Democratic propositions. For example, Obama’s recent socialist comment that enterpreneurs didn’t build their business on their own, but rather with the help of the govenment, and therefore they owe the government. Socialism never works. Ayn Rand is right in that people, for the most part, act in their own self-interest. So, once you remove the incentive for doing anything, people stop doing those things. If the government will support me while I just sit back and do nothing, then I’ll just sit back and do nothing — as will everyone else. We can see what an abysmal failure North Korea and Cuba have been — when your individual efforts are not rewarded, you quit making those individual efforts. I have heard China described as more capitalist than the USA at present, and the USA as more socialist / communist than China. The reason China is doing so well is, in part, because they have become more capitalist. So, the Democrats, who have morphed into socialists / communists, definitely would not get my vote even if they were pro-life — in summary, because they are pro-gay marriage; they are irresponsible spenders; and they are socialists / communists.
Feel a little on the ropes do you?
Your ramblings are longer and less mature (for lack of a better word).
And I assume you know the definitions for:
Socialism
Capitalism
Fascism
Communism
Marxism
Totalitarianism
etc.
I do.
Dennis — I don’t feel on the ropes at all. It’s interesting how you make assumptions about me that are incorrect. What I do think is that your responses to my posts often do not logically follow. Also, honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if, during your childhood, you were correctly pretty harshly for making mistakes, because you seem to disdain mistakes in anyone, including yourself.
This “prayer campaign” is a good illustration of the reasons behind the Constitutional prohibition of religious tests for public office, huh!
Good point Florian. Looks like we are forgetting separation of Church and state.
See how they love one another!
Oh, lets not abuse prayer or “redefine” prayer by praying for the conversion of Paul Ryan and/or Joe Biden. The Lord is with them as with you.
So, Dennis, apparently you have redefined Church teaching. I thought you were an economist, not a theologian. The fact is, the Church clearly teaches that we can and should pray for others, and that are prayers are efficacious, especially as we ourselves grow closer to God. So indeed, we should pray for the conversion of Joe Biden, and we should ask God to continue to give Paul Ryan the courage to say and do what needs to be said and done.
are = our in the above best — I am posting this for you, Dennis, so you don’t lambaste me for that word error!
oops again! Best = post in the above post.
Please note:
Dennis is not DENNIS.
Thanks for that clarification, DENNIS!
Also please note: Jim is not Dennis. (disclaimer: this post was meant to confuse DENNIS, who is trying to figure me out. I just gave him the slip.)
I prefer to pray for myself and/or the good of others; not for the “conversion” of those whose social or political beliefs are different to mine – be that either Biden or Ryan.
I believe that our God aint either a Republican or Democrat, or indeed a catholic! God is love, creator and father/mother of all.
Jim, I am just Dennis and you are Jim. So, no need to wonder if economist, theologian or whatever other profession.
Actually it is our duty as christians to pray for all those in authority.
Ryan thinks for himself. Biden’s views do not reflect “Catholic Teaching”, he molds his views to the left wing anti-catholic majority in his party.It is true that while the Church is proud of Ryan, the Church regrets the anti-Catholic Biden agenda. Ryan believes that a failing governmental social system cannot fulfill the Catholic social dream, however he is smart enough to make the most of difficult times and will do more to help the poor through sound economics, than Bidens pandering. I agree with above comment that the article is biased toward Biden, as can be expected from Catholic News. Obama /Biden is spreading abortion throughout the world, and Catholic News downplays this horrible Human Rights violation that kills innocent Human Beings.Catholic News thinks that the economic problems that Ryan must solve to fully help the poor are Ryans fault.You can’t be a Catholic and violate the Universal Declaration of Human Rights , like Biden does
Hi Raymond.
What “sound economics” are you referring to?
This quote is extracted from Tony’s post below:
Biden has said that “as a Roman Catholic, I am willing to accept the teachings of my church” on abortion. But, he continued in a 2008 “Meet the Press” interview, “for me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society.” Makes sense and he clearly is NOT for abortion.
By the way, as a male, are you aware that if you masturbate you are committing the same act as abortion according to the Bible?
What bible do you read?
How many versions of the Catholic Bible are there?
Not to be nitpicky but I think it is spelled Bible not bible.
Do you have more difficult question?
Dennis — absolutely not true. In fact, masturbation is not even mentioned ever in the Bible. There is the sin of Onan in Genesis 38, but that was not masturbation — it was a refusal to impregnate the wife of his deceased brother.
You are right, that is the reference I was referring to. But it is still considered a sin to “spill one’s seed”
Where does it rank on the sin scale relative to abortion?
Dennis — if you consult the Catechism (paragraph 2352), you will see that masturabation objectively is always a grave matter. Howeever, also consulting the Catechism, you will see that three conditions must be present for any sin to be a “mortal sin”: (1) grave matter; (2) person knows it’s a grave matter; (3) person performs the act with FULL consent of the will. Father Harvey, who has a ministry for sexual issues (some of his stuff is available online for free), notes that if a person resists the tempation to masturbate even once, then later gives in, the initial resistance is prima facia evidence that the masturbation did not occur with full consent of the will. He also notes that, if a person is not sure if they gave full consent, then the presumption is in favor of non-consent. However, masturabation always should be confessed before receiving Holy Communion again (which is inconsistent with it not being a mortal sin, I realize, but that is considered the best practice, and it makes total sense to me).
So, with regard to your question: clearly, abortion is a much much much graver offense than masturbation, even if the masturbation IS with full consent of the will. God is a God of life, and to deny a baby life is horrific, not even close to masturbation.
Sometimes I like to go to extremes just to get a reaction.
By the way, is there any reference to abortion in the Bible?
No sir — but by clear implication, the fifth commandment covers it.
Teach me.
What is that clear implication.
Is all birth control a sin.
All artificial contraception is a grave sin. The Cathecism of the Catholic Church is very clear about this.
Hi Andrew.
Data shows that 98 percent of Catholic women who have had sex and are of childbearing age have used an artificial method of contraception.
Well toss those women out of the church. Pretty soon it will be just you and a handful of other males that are the only TRUE Catholics.
Dennis — first, that 98% figure needs to be understood for what it is — which comes, I believe, from the Alan Gutchmacher (spelling) Institute, the research arm of Planned Parenthood. The question that was asked of the women was, have you ever used birth control at any time in your life? So, the 98% figure is not a point-prevalence figure. Number two, I could care less if 100% of Catholic women (other than my own wife and Andrew’s wife and the wives of other faithful Catholics) are contracepting — 100 wrongs do not make it right. Before God flooded out the world in Noah’s time, everyone was scornful of him while he was building his ark — for the life of me, though, I can’t remember who had the last laugh. So, Protestants define dogma by taking a vote. Catholics define it by allowing God to inerrantly lead the Church and to proclaim dogma though His instruments, the bishops of the Church. Third, I can show you empirical evidence conducted by a non-Catholic on macaque monkeys that found that hormonal contraception absolutely causes substantial problems in male-female relationships. Four, you’re right — maybe it will be just me, my wife, my adult children, Andrew and his family. We will continue to pray for all of our separated brothers and sisters who are in darkness, so that God will enlighten your hearts so that you will join us someday.
Dennis — with all due respect — and I do mean that sincerely — you post seems to be responding to two issues. So, excuse me if I misunderstood your 12:41 P.M. post. First, the fifth commandment clearly tells us that abortion is wrong, as it is the taking of an innocent life. With regard to birth control: the Catechism specifies that if a couple, for “just reasons”, use Natural Family Planning (NFP) to limit births when they are not financially or emotionally capable of having another child, that is morally licit. NFP used for “unjust” reasons, and all artificial means of birth control are morally unacceptable. Part of the wisdom of the Catholic Church becomes apparent when we discover that birth control pills don’t always block ovulation — in some cases, a child is conceived, but the hormones in the contraceptive also change the uterine lining, so the embryo can’t bury itself in the uterine lining — resulting in a miscarriage.
Jim I moved this reply further up the page so it would be legible.
I learned two fundament principles when involved in a debate, discussion, competition, etc.
1 – Never underestimate your competition.
2 – You can never win an argument with an irrational person (there is no basis or foundation to determine a victor).
The first rule clearly applies to you.
I apologize before hand but I just can’t help it. The second rule clearly applies to Andrew.
Your argument would be much stronger if there was a specific reference to abortion in the Bible since it existed then.
I have a great deal of respect for you.
My father went to church several times a week and the whole family went every Sunday.
My father was legally blind in his early sixties and died at 87. He wasn’t able to get around very well during that period but every morning he would start by praying the rosary. He did this several times a day until he died.
What is the point? Let’s just say I have hung around with profoundly religious people my entire life. Of course it says nothing about me.
The only reason I even post on this site is Ayn Ryan is not a Catholic and something tells me to get the word out.
DENNIS — thanks for sharing that very personal part of your life. I am sure your father continues to pray for you from Heaven. And, the Rosary — wow, the most powerful prayer there is. So, with regard to your post though — and I’m sincerely asking — are you saying that I am underestimating my competition?
I was referring to how I approach you.
I hope you are underestimating me. It makes things a lot easier.
Actually, Dennis, I don’t think I am underestimating you. I believe I have read you correctly from the beginning — you better know what you are talking about in a debate with you. So, I have been more careful in responding to you than anyone else. I’m not prying, but it wouldn’t surprise me if you were an attorney or a university professor — but now I’m remembering, you’re and economist, probably with a Ph.D. So, no, I don’t intend to underestimate you. I am careful with you, because I don’t want to make a fool of myself — and if I do, I’m sure you’ll point that out to me — and that last comment was not meant as a criticism of you. Truth be told, I like people that shoot for the stars and strive for perfection — they make me better — as long as they are not cruel with me in the process.
Darn! That makes it tougher.
I am only going to mention this to let you know you are pretty darn close about my background. I was a rocket scientist (I get a lot ribbing about that), financial analyst, college professor, computer programmer, economist and a few others jobs. Now forget this.
Right, Dennis, all forgotten. Well, I can understand why you can’t suffer errors — make a little error in launching that rocket, and it hits Venus instead of the moon. That’s also quite a diverse background — rocket scientists (Ph.D. in physics?) usually do not become economists. The other links, though, I can see: computer programmer and college professor. Financial analyst, of course, fits with being an economist (at least it seems to me that it does). So, now, Dennis, what you want to do is build a rocket that gets you to Heaven. And, I’ll tell you what that is: it is trust in the infinite mercy of Jesus, and the humility to both know that you need His mercy to get to Heaven, and to accept His offer of mercy.
And Dennis, I really don’t want to reveal any identifiable part of my background or current pursuits — I have posted things on this site that I would not relish defending in my public life. This site also offers a venue for me to hear the reaction s of others to what I am really thinking — as I do assert 50% to 75% of what I post here in public, but not 100% — but, I’m working toward 100%. Gauging the reactions of others to what I post is a laboratory for me — it gives me a good guess about the unverbalized reactions of others to my public pronouncements. I tell you this in part so that you can know that, if I raise valid points with you, especially given your accomplished background, it is only because I have some professional background myself.
You wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Shame on you being a professional and educated.
But it was obvious anyway.
Well, Dennis, I was hoping you would tell me I am a sheep in wolf’s clothing.
While I’m waiting for your answer — I’m sure you are familiar with Muhammad Ali — he proclaimed himself to be the greatest fighter of all time. And you probably are familiar with Joe Namath — he predicted a Super Bowl victory for his AFL team when everyone thought it was a very difficult thing to pull off. So, there is something to be said for bravado. Plus, it’s fun — there really are no real-world consequences for underestimating your opponents on this site. The truth is, I love a good debate — and, if I am wrong, I hope I am man enough to congratulate the person who bested me.
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Paul Ryan, Joe Biden square off in a battle of two Catholics
Aug. 16, 2012
By Daniel Burke, Religion News Service
House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan speaks at CPAC 2011 in Washington, D.C. (RNS/Flickr/Gage Skidmore)
For the first time in U.S. history, both sides of the 2012 presidential ballot include Roman Catholics: Democrats’ Vice President Joe Biden and Republicans’ newly named vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan.
Ryan, 42, still belongs to the Catholic parish where he was an altar boy, St. John Vianney in Janesville, Wis. Biden, 69, the first Catholic vice president in U.S. history, attends Mass at St. Patrick’s Parish and St. Joseph on the Brandywine Church, both in Wilmington, De.
Biden and Ryan both cite their faith as a formative influence, but neither is known as a standard-bearer for the Catholic hierarchy’s chief political causes: abortion and gay marriage. In fact, the two candidates are — politically, at least — almost polar opposites.
Biden agrees with the church on social justice issues like poverty but runs afoul on gay marriage and abortion rights. Ryan, meanwhile, agrees with Catholic doctrine on abortion and gay marriage, but clashes with church leaders on social justice issues.
With Catholics making up almost a quarter of the U.S. electorate — and almost a third in Midwestern swing states — the “Who’s the Better Catholic?” debate might become far more than an intrachurch squabble.
“It has the potential to have a huge impact on this election,” said Maria Mazzenga, a historian at The Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C.
Neither the Democratic nor Republican party platforms perfectly align with the wide body of Catholic social doctrine, which encompasses views on everything from war to economics to the unborn.
“The official teachings of the church can’t really be put into one camp or the other,” Mazzenga said.
So Catholic politicians must often choose between church and party orthodoxy, said R. Scott Appleby, a professor of history at the University of Notre Dame.
“In our current system, is it possible to have a politician who, along with papal teaching, says no to abortion, no to nuclear proliferation, no to poverty? The answer is no,” Appleby said.
Biden has said that “as a Roman Catholic, I am willing to accept the teachings of my church” on abortion. But, he continued in a 2008 “Meet the Press” interview, “for me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society.”
Biden, who had already been barred from speaking at Catholic schools in Wilmington because of his stance on abortion, was blasted by bishops.
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Archbishop Charles Chaput, a leading voice in the church who now heads the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, called Biden’s argument “morally exhausted.”
“It’s certainly true that we need to acknowledge the views of other people and compromise whenever possible,” Chaput said at the time, “but not at the expense of a developing child’s right to life.”
Bill Donohue, president of the conservative Catholic League, said the hierarchy has made it clear that outlawing abortion and defending traditional marriage are the church’s top political priorities.
“This puts Biden at a decisive disadvantage in making the case that he better represents Catholic teachings,” Donohue said.
But conservative Catholic activist Deal Hudson argues that Ryan, too, has a “Catholic problem.”
The Wisconsin congressman chairs the House Budget Committee and is credited with writing the 2012 and 2013 House Republican budget plans, which call for steep cuts to programs that care for the poor, such as food stamps and Medicaid, while giving tax breaks to the wealthy.
For the last two years, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has written a series of letters to House lawmakers, including Ryan, arguing that the “central moral measure” of any budget is how it affects “poor and vulnerable people.”
Ryan’s 2013 budget plan, which passed in the House but died in the Senate, “fails to meet these moral criteria,” wrote Bishop Stephen Blaire of Stockton, Calif., chairman of the bishops’ Committee on Domestic Justice and Human Development.
Catholic nuns, scholars and Franciscans have been even more critical.
Nuns protested Ryan’s budget on a nine-state bus tour this summer, rallying outside his district office. The Franciscan Action Network accused the congressman of “balancing the budget on the backs of the poor.” Almost 90 scholars at Georgetown University, the nation’s oldest Catholic college, said Ryan’s budget owes more to Ayn Rand, whom he has cited as a major influence, than to the Gospel.
Ryan has vigorously defended his budget and fidelity to Catholic social teaching.
“The overarching threat to our whole society today is the exploding federal debt,” Ryan said at Georgetown University in April. “The Holy Father, Pope Benedict, has charged that governments, communities and individuals running up high debt levels are ‘living at the expense of future generations’ and ‘living in untruth,’” he said.
Ryan has also cited the Catholic principle of “subsidiarity” to argue that government programs should not crowd out civic life, including local charities and churches.
In a Daily Beast article, Hudson suggested Ryan has more convincing to do.
“The bottom line is this: the Romney-Ryan campaign must acknowledge the Catholic concerns about the budget as a major obstacle to winning the election,” Hudson wrote Monday.
It is imtrinsicly evil to kill a zygote or fetus or embryo that shows signs of disability, is Paul Ryan in his Catholic budget going to provide care for it all though its life. If he does, as a Catholic he has my vote, if he doesn’t I dont know what kind of a prolife Catholic he is.
It is my openion that as hard as it is, Ryan has put forth a budget that will start to save America. Look at Greece, socialiam at its best. They are bankrupt. Obana borrows money from Red China to give to every social program and fight a war we are loosing and refuse to leave because we have to look strong and look good to the world. We have learned nothing from Viet Nam; Biden is a catholic turn-coat. He wants his job period. His chief loyality is to Obama not Catholism.
95 percent of this article focuses on the oh so terrible sins of Paul Ryan’s budget. Then, at the end we get a line that basically says “oh yeah, we hope Biden becomes pro-life.” Now granted, this article appeared in USA Today which is a typical lame stream media rag that favors Democrats. But, if this Franciscan group really quoted so heavily against Ryan over Biden, then they’re the ones who need some prayers! As for the (fake) nuns on the bus, those feminists aren’t worthy of comment.
Good to hear from you Andrew.
Apparently you are the Andrew that is always wrong. There is something to be said for consistency.
Unfortunately you only expressed an opinion and you are entitled to your opinion. Therefore there is nothing to prove wrong. You get a pass on this post.
Go NUNS!!!
Andrew — I look forward to your reply. I have something to which I must attend for the next several hours, so I won’t be able to help you with Dennis. But I will in the near future, don’t worry. You take the left flank, I’ll take the right (or vice versa).
Anxious for your return Jim . He needs all the help he can get.
How am I wrong? Look at this articles content: I don’t see how you can argue that a good 90 to 95 percent of the article focuses on these groups concern about Ryan’s budget while the end barely touches on their concern with Biden’s pro-abortion views. So, I’m right on my point. You will see what you want to see but anyone with a thirst for the truth can look up the websites for these feminist nuns and see for themselves that they are indeed feminist so once again, I’m right. If you think Ryan’s budget is more important or equally as important as the right to life then I feel sorry for you. Non CINOs take the “thou shalt not kill” commandment seriously. Oh and by the way, since you have so much time on your hands, look up Joe Bidens personal contributions to charity. Hint: he’s not very charitable. Not that any of this matters to you. You never did debunk any of my points the other day like you said you would so why should I or anyone else take you seriously?
ANdrew will get off your little anti nun bull excrement.
The care for the zygote must extend to its development to an embryo to a fetus to natural bith as a baby and further to life as a child, adolescent, young adult and adult and senior citizen. That is being prolife. And Ryan with his poor budget is no treating the poor zygote tha has advances on the cycle of human development.
Cut your baloney Andrew.
Tony.
Where you said “And Ryan with his poor” I first read it as Ayn Ryan. That should be his nickname from now on. I like the way it sounds.
You may want to proofread before posting Tony.
Cut the garbage andrew you know I am correct dispite my poor typing abilities, being prolife is caring for people from the womb to the tomb. is that proof read enough for you.
I didn’t count the words in this article and don’t care if it 95% or 1%. But let’s say your math is right. I would like to see you right at least once.
Point to ONE of your points I didn’t prove was wrong.
If Ryan is elected there will definitely be an immediate impact on social programs but virtually no impact on the pro-choice issue (it is a congressional thing) for some time if ever.
Catholics should be more concerned about Ryan’s Objectivism based budget. It touches human life and the question should be:
Do we want to hurt the poor and disabled in hopes that there might be some movement on the pro-choice issue.
Ryan’s budget undermines the dignity of the human person. Economic decisions have human consequences and moral content; they help or hurt people, strengthen or weaken family life, advance or diminish the quality of justice in our land.
Biden is not very charitable – what amount of charity do you think is the proper amount.
Apparently you know how much Biden gives to charity.How much more than Biden do you give to Catholic charities or any charities for that matter.
Let’s take care of human life from the womb to the tomb, not stop after a zygote is born as a baby. lets provide care for the zygote untill it reaches old age.
There can be nothing more pro life than that, Biden aint gonna do it and neither is Ryan Catholic or no Catholic.
You are very good!
Poor Andrew.
Look at your postings on August 15th. In one of your MANY posts that day, you offered to debunk my points. I told you to go right ahead and you didn’t keep your word. I dont expect you to start now since you are obviously not a man of your word. As for Bidens charitable contributions. According to USA Today (google it), he and his wife gave an average of $369 per year to charity from 1998 to 2008. Their total income at the time was $320k. They gave at most, $995.00 to charity in 07 and just $120.00 in 99. I do not make anywhere near six figures a year but I am proud to admit, I give $450 every month to my parish as well as $400 a month for a Catholic education fund that benefits children who can’t afford tuition. I also donate with enthusiasm to other Catholic charities including an order of Adoration Sisters who are nothing like the feminists in the LCWR. I am happy to do without earthly luxuries to fund those doing Gods work through His Church.
Andrew you sous like the Pharasse wo wnt to the front of the temple to pray thank you lord for ot making me like the rest of men,
You need to proofread before you post. This reply is just plain inarticulate.
Andrew you sound like the Pharasse who went to the front of the temple to thank God that he is not like the rest of men. Did that come out clear enought for you Andrew?
Andrew — you don’t sound like a Pharisee to me — since this is an anonymous blog, you are not personally benefitting from you telling us about some of your charitable contributions; you simply are informing us that Catholics need to take the need to give to charity more seriously, instead of expecting the government (i.e., someone else) to do the job that is proper to individuals. Joe Biden is the perfect example of a liberal Demon-crat — he does virtually nothing himself, just supports legislation that coerces others to do his job for him.
Amen brother. Rich liberals are very generous with other peoples money. Their own however is another story. It would be interesting to see what charities Biden did give a few scraps to.
I’m guessing — Planned Parenthood? National Organization of (Lesbians) oops — I meant National Organization of Lesbians — oops, my bad again — arthriic fingers — the National Organization of WOMEN.
Andrew — I am familiar with one research study that literally drew that conclusion: they empirically studied giving to the Salvation Army in San Francisco and some place in the midwest (Iowa?). They found that, adjusted for number of passersby, there was more per-capita giving in Iowa. San Francisco has to be one of the most disgustingly-liberal cities in the country. I’m surprised anyone gave anything to the Salvation Army in San Francisco.
I am thrilled to hear that you are so generous. Seriously, good for you!
Many Catholics do not take tax deductions for their charitable contributions. There just seems to be a conflict there.
Now, what is that ONE point you think you might be right about?
Dennis, you are just like the whiny progressives in the media and the Democrat party leadership who keep asking for more of Romneys tax returns in order to dodge the issues. The ball is in YOUR court. I stand by everything I post here, you call what I say untrue and offer to prove me wrong. I tell you to go for it, you don’t deliver. Debate with you is pointless, you’re just a message board troll. Get over yourself.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but names etc.
You should wait for Jim to help – he makes sense.
Do you have a question or a point to make?