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Women bishops: Vote could change Church forever
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The Church of England may be about to turn its back on more than 2,000 years of Christian tradition by allowing women to be ordained as bishops.
Leaders of the Church’s governing General Synod begin meeting later ahead of a vote on Monday on the divisive issue.
Since the days of Jesus and his 12 male apostles, the Church has been led by exclusively male bishops, their authority handed down the generations by the laying on of hands.
There is a general consensus in the Church of England – which ordained women as priests for the first time 18 years ago – that the role of bishop should be open to women too.
Women now constitute a third of the Church’s 11,000 priests, several have reached senior positions as archdeacons or the deans of cathedrals, and there’s little dispute that they have proved their worth.
For such a profound step, the General Synod will have to support the legislation to create women bishops by a majority of two-thirds.
Each of the Synod’s three houses – representing bishops, clergy and lay people – will have to indicate that level of support.
Despite overwhelming agreement about the need for women bishops in a society where equality is highly valued, and a Church in which women priests have become indispensable, the vote hangs in the balance.
That’s because all except the most radical campaigners for women bishops accept the demand from traditionalists for exemptions from serving under them.
“High church” traditionalists share the Roman Catholic view that because Jesus chose only men to be his apostles, the spiritual leadership of the Church should be male only.
They argue that because the Roman Catholic Church (from which Anglicans inherited their ancestry of male bishops at the time of the Reformation) and the Orthodox Church cannot accept women bishops, the Church of England is not able to make such a fundamental decision.
Some say it is impossible to be sure that women can be bishops – or priests either for that matter.
For these traditionalists, if a woman presides at Holy Communion, they cannot be sure the bread and wine contain the “real presence” of Jesus.
They argue that if a woman bishop were to ordain a man, they could not be sure he was a real priest. [More]
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28 Comments
This is just one more evidence that the Catholic Church is the true Church — women were not made by God to be clergy, to be in leadership roles, or to teach. Thus, the Catholic Church never will ordain women; but splinter churches will.
Jim, I missed you! So happy you are back. Mothers do a good joy leading their children in prayer, they certainly lead their children to God and mothers sure do a good job in interpreting Gods word and teaching in their domestic church. In my mind that is as important as any act a clergy man can do.
Tony — I do agree — a woman’s role of being the heart of the home is incredibly important, no less important than the role of the father. Men are the left wing of the jet, women are the right wing (or vice versa) — the jet can’t fly without either wing. The two wings do two different things, and both are essential. Men will never replace women, and women will never replace men. Women need to stop trying to assume the role God has given to men; likewise, those men who try to assume the role God has given to women never will do as good of a job. So, let’s celebrate that God made some orchestra members to play the guitar, others the cello, others the violin, others the drums. A cello player will not play the drums well, and the drummer will not play the guitar well. Let us seek out the vocation (call) God has given us, instead of trying to be what we in our pride and arrogance think we should be.
Jim, I wonder if women have not evolved in western culture and society to take on leadership responsibilities. We see women Queens, women prime ministers, women presidents, women who are able to balance being a nuturing parent AND leader of a peole. We see women astronuts, women brain surgens, women in every sphere of secular leadership. So I supose, the question: why not in the Chruch?
Tony — women bring something feminine, non-masculine to everything they do, including when they are in leadership roles. For example, it has been demonstrated the female CEOs lead the company after getting more consensus than male CEOs. Gaining consensus has a place, certainly, and a smart man gets input before he makes his decision, including from women. But, when it comes to actually making the decision, men are better equipped. There is no doubt women have some ability to lead. The question is, if I’m going to field a baseball team, do it want it to be of women or of men? Some women will beat some men, but on the average the men will win. So, you go with your best strenght. Further, if you take women out of their womanly role, who is going to fill that? Men cannot do it very well. Let us be who God created us to be; let us not make ourselves into who we in our pride and arrogance have determined we should (or want to) be.
Jim you ask if we take women out of a role, who would replace it.. I think the answer is necessarily men. We see stay at home Mr Moms, and men doing women’s roles very successfully. We see men and women cops, men and wome solders men and women everything. So it would seem that collaboration among the sexes is the way to go.
Tony — well, I am convinced men do not do anywhere near as good of a job in the traditionally feminine domains as women. Women, for example, are natural psychologists (although they’re sometimes off the mark) — they read facial expressions much better than men, and they are much more sensitive to interpersonal nuance. It comes back to this question: if men and women are interchangeable, why did God create two sexes? The answer is NOT because it is the only way He could have accomplished reprouduction, because God, as God, could have structured biologic processes any way He so chooses; he could have made reproduction asexual. Genesis 1:27: “Male and female he created them.”
But Jim, as women are assuming leadership roles in almost area of secular life, it maybe a good idea to get them in greater leadership roles in the church.
We are seeing women apointed Chancellors of Dioceses. For example in the Palm Beach, and Rockville Centre Diocese women are chancellors.
It is argued that only recently a man needed to be a bishop before being appointed Cardinal. Perhaps it might be good to go back to the requirement is that one be a baptised Person to be a Cardinal and women then be apppppointed Cardinal.
No way, Tony — that’s like saying cars should now be able to float in the water. There is nothing man can do to change God’s vocation for men and women. Of course, like Eve and then Adam, man can try to foil the divine plan — but that always ends in utter failure. Revelations 3:8: “What God has opened, no man can shut, and what God has shut, no man can open.”
Plus, Tony, ask any woman to reflect on her feminine soul. Women actually prefer men to be the leaders, to be their providers; they will be their own leaders or providers when they cannot find a man to lead them and provide for them. Ask your wife, and ask her to be honest with you before she answers; her answer may surprise you. But, the anti-women’s movement of the last 60 years has so hood-winked most Americans that many no longer can access what is in their soul; so sometimes women say they don’t want to be lead or provided for. Here’s the other side: no man wants a woman to provide for him. If men are to respect themselves, they must provide for themselves and, often, a woman and the children. If you’d move out of Boston and to some saner place like a third-world country, you’d be able to understand what I am saying.
Finally, Tony, I thank God women cannot be priests; that would be such a turn-off to me. If God truly wanted women to be priests, then I’d go along with it; but, He does not.
But Jim, while I will agree with you that women cannot now becomw priests they may be in leadership positions. like Cardinals.
Tony — you’ll be pleased to know, though, that before I picked our zucchini squash today, I insisted my wife give me her opinion about their readiness. My wife will beat me hands down at many things like that. Women were made to be gathers, so they have sharper senses than men (this has been demonstrated empirically). Men were made to be the hunters, and thus we are stronger, faster, and have a better sense of direction (for tracking animals).
But Jim being a hunter and stronger and faster or having a better sense of direction for tracking animals is not necessary for being a leader in the church.
Jim, how was the zucchini? I like my sauted with a little onions and oil.
Re: the zucchini — haven’t eaten it yet — just picked it a few hours ago. I’m a terrible cook — that’s why I got married!
— so, my dear wife will have to make it for me, maybe tomorrow.
Jim, what a chauvinistic thing to say!
Why am I not surprised?
But the point about men being stronger and faster is that God clearly prxscrxbed different roles for the two sexes,
and He gave us with the skills to accomplish those tasks He has given to us. So, admittedly, being faster doesn’t make you a better leader — but, having more testosterone and not allowing emotions and interpersonal considerations to so dominate decision-making does make men better leaders. Testoserone increases risk-taking — and leaders must take risks.
Tony — what a strange response from you (why am I not surprised?) What on Earth is chauvenistic about saying I got married because my wife is a better cook? This is exactly the type of interdependence God intended in creating two sexes.
Jim, I’m sorry I thousht we married our spouses because we loved them for who they are, not for what they can do for us. Sorry, my bad.
Tony — Well, it’s hard to disagree with what you posted. However, I was addressing your accusation that my post was chauvenistic. You can accuse me of selfishness for that, but the chauvenism designation escapes me.
Jim, perhaps we need to agree on the definition of the word. To the extent that I may have used it incorrectlyI apologize.
Now if only some of these women Anglican priests would convert to Catholicism!
I wonder what the Catholic Church would do with them!
Simple answer, Recovering — they could not be priests in the true Church of Jesus Christ. They can be priests in Henry VIII’s church, of course — but obviously, that church is not God’s true Church.
It seems the real “sin” here is the unbending prejudice of the men in the Anglican Church. And don’t these Anglican men realize that the Roman Catholic Church has always viewed them as protestants and nothing happens in their communion ritual anyway?